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Poglejte polno različico : Prevod: filozofija v anglescini


Lencka
17.11.2006, 11:14
Nikakor ne najdem prevoda: ali kdo ve, kako bi prevedla "EXACT and EXACTING philosophy"? :dontknow:

In pa OUTLOOK v: "To pomeni, da si noben posameznik, šola ali OUTLOOK ne more lastiti filozofije." Ne vem, zakaj bi "pogled" ne zveni ok, a bi mogoce vseeno ustrezal?

Hvala :)

Lencka
17.11.2006, 11:18
Ja, pa se "SENSE-DATA teorija zaznavanja".

nofear2009
03.12.2006, 01:01
Sense-data: na wikipedia sem nasel par stvari o tej teoriji in na lep nacin razlozi za kaj se gre ;)

The concept of sense data (singular: sense datum) is very influential and widely used in the philosophy of perception.

Many philosophers have said that the most immediate objects of perception are mental objects—objects in the mind. So within the mind there are two different items: there is a mental object, which may represent things outside the mind, and something that makes up awareness, such as the process of a perceptual act (see Husserl) or the phenomenon of an inner sense (see Immanuel Kant or Rene Descartes).

For example, according to this view, when I see the President on TV the very first thing I perceive is an image of the President in my mind. This image represents the moving picture on the television screen, and that moving picture on the television screen in turn represents the President himself.

Besides sense-data these alleged immediate mental objects of perception have been called impressions (e.g., by Hume), ideas (Berkeley), sensibilia (J. L. Austin), qualia (C. I. Lewis) and other names.

We have mental awareness of those Presidential sense-data, not with our eyes, of course, because our eyes are in the physical world, and sense-data are in the mind. Those Presidential sense-data are caused by the image of the President on the TV screen. And the sense-data represent the President to us. So generally there are supposed to be mental, internal objects of perception, which represent physical, external objects. "Internal" here just means "inside the mind" (though of course you can guess that that phrase is open to different interpretations). "External" means, correspondingly, "outside the mind" or "in the physical world."

Aja, in se tvoje vprasanje o EXACT in EXACTING PHILO >> exact pomeni natancen in specificen...neki v tem smislu, exacting pa ima lahko negativen smisel, ce ga uporabimo, ko hocemo povedati, da je nekaj zahtevno, strogo ali pa v bolj pozitivnem smislu, nekaj kar zahteva veliko trudi npr. in veliko pozornosti.

Lencka
06.12.2006, 08:58
Najlepsa hvala, ampak... jaz potrebujem prevod. Kaj to pomeni, (vsaj priblizno :)) vem, ampak ne potrebujem opisa, temvec sinonim v slovenscini. Vem, da ni enostavno... imam to za diplomsko in sem ze tudi mentorju "zatezila", pa mora tudi razmislit.

stMAMA
06.12.2006, 20:06
Pomoje se to prevede preprosto "eksaktna filozofija", kot je to recimo pri "eksaktni znanosti".

Sense-data bi lahko prevedel kot "observacije", "podatke observacij", "opažanja"...

nofear2009
06.12.2006, 22:38
Trenutno pri filozofiji obravnavamo "external world" (zunanji svet) in "epistemology". Vem, da smo za teorijo zaznavanja uporabljali izraz "common-sense realism", ki pravi, da vidimo svet s pomocjo 5 cutil...pol smo pa tud se omenjali "representative realism" ali pa "idealism", kakorkol ze, te izraze se pac posloveni po mojem in dobis slovenski prevod ;) . Za "Exact Philosophy" pa nimam pojma, kaksen bi bil prevod....se nism slisu :dontknow:

Tanatie
08.12.2006, 00:50
Po slovarju:

Exact: točen, natančen
Exacting: zahteven, natančen, oblasten
Outlook: pogled, razgled, upanje, obeti za prihodnost
Sense: čut, občutek, čutilo, pomen, smisel, mnenje, zdrava pamet
Data: podatki


Moje razlage (teorije...lazje bi bilo, ce bi napisala tocen stavek, da se vidi iz konteksta):
EXACT and EXACTING philosophy: Natancna in zahtevna filozofija
OUTLOOK: Vidik (sveta) ali pogled (na svet)
SENSE DATA: Čutilni podatki

V glavnem, teh mojih razlag ti najrajsi sploh ne bi dal, ampak pol bi mi zihr kdo napisu da sam spemam, pa da nism nc novga povedu tko da nej bojo, bi pa na tvojem mestu objavu stavke, v katerih moras uporabiti te besede (pa ce se da, se enga pred pa enga za stavkom s temi besedami), ker je najdet pravilni prevod necesa brez konteksta exact & exacting...:)
good luck, js sm tut ze parkrat forum uporabu za prevajanje:2thumbs:

Lencka
11.12.2006, 09:17
Hm... je vse res, kar ste napisali, ampak ne vem, kako naj to uporabim. Res bo najbolje, da dam cele stavke, da vidite.

1. As we have demonstrated (as opposed to proven), philosophy is not a thing, but a way of doing various things that are not exceptionally philosophical in themselves; "not a body of doctrine but an activity" (Wittgenstein, Tractatus, § 4.112). This means that no individual, school or outlook can claim to own philosophy.

Ena ideja (pa ne moja, metorjev pravi, da bi bilo to to): sistem? (Torej filozof, šola in filozofski sistem.) Meni zveni kar ok, kaj mislite?

2. Unlike many ordinary language philosophers, however, Austin disavowed any considerable indebtedness to Wittgenstein's later philosophy. His main influence, he said, was the exact, exacting, and common-sense philosophy of G. E. Moore (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/G._E._Moore).

3. In the posthumously published Sense and sensibilia -- the title was, no doubt, chosen for its match with Sense and Sensibility (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Sense_and_Sensibility) by that "other" Austin, Jane Austen (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Jane_Austen) -- Austin famously criticises sense-data (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Sense-data) theories of perception, particularly that of Alfred Jules Ayer (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Alfred_Jules_Ayer) in The Foundations of Empirical Knowledge. Austin argues that Ayer fails to understand the proper function of words such as "illusion", "hallucination", "looks", "appears" and "seems". He argues that these words allow us to express reservations about our commitment to the truth of what we are saying, and that the introduction of sense-data adds nothing to our understanding or ability to talk about what we see.

Pa hvala za trud in se priporocam se naprej :)

nofear2009
11.12.2006, 22:35
Hm... je vse res, kar ste napisali, ampak ne vem, kako naj to uporabim. Res bo najbolje, da dam cele stavke, da vidite.

1. As we have demonstrated (as opposed to proven), philosophy is not a thing, but a way of doing various things that are not exceptionally philosophical in themselves; "not a body of doctrine but an activity" (Wittgenstein, Tractatus, § 4.112). This means that no individual, school or outlook can claim to own philosophy.

Ena ideja (pa ne moja, metorjev pravi, da bi bilo to to): sistem? (Torej filozof, šola in filozofski sistem.) Meni zveni kar ok, kaj mislite?

2. Unlike many ordinary language philosophers, however, Austin disavowed any considerable indebtedness to Wittgenstein's later philosophy. His main influence, he said, was the exact, exacting, and common-sense philosophy of G. E. Moore (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/G._E._Moore).

3. In the posthumously published Sense and sensibilia -- the title was, no doubt, chosen for its match with Sense and Sensibility (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Sense_and_Sensibility) by that "other" Austin, Jane Austen (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Jane_Austen) -- Austin famously criticises sense-data (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Sense-data) theories of perception, particularly that of Alfred Jules Ayer (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/Alfred_Jules_Ayer) in The Foundations of Empirical Knowledge. Austin argues that Ayer fails to understand the proper function of words such as "illusion", "hallucination", "looks", "appears" and "seems". He argues that these words allow us to express reservations about our commitment to the truth of what we are saying, and that the introduction of sense-data adds nothing to our understanding or ability to talk about what we see.

Pa hvala za trud in se priporocam se naprej :)

1. Ne! lol. "Outlook" v tem primeru pomeni pogled, mnenje, misljenje. Nikakor pa ne pomeni nek sistem. lol. Sem preprican. ;)

2. Glede tega se vedno nisem sigurn. Lahk reces eno od navedenih prevodov, ampak je sigurn v slovenscini tocna beseda / izraz za "exact, exacting"

3. Ta me pa spominja na "representative realism" - "primary and secondary qualities". V glavnem nism preprican.

Tanatie
12.12.2006, 07:43
v prvem primeru se strinjam z nofearom, dodal bi mogoce se vidik. glede drugih dveh ti pa moram priznati da se mi ne sanja nic bolj kot prej. verjetno nimas opcije spremeniti stavkov? a nimamo mi neke prevajalke na temu forumu?

Lencka
12.12.2006, 08:13
Ja stavke spremenit se ne spremeni dejstva, da potrebujem izraz... se vedno moram najti slovensko ustreznico, ne?

A misljenje, vidik? Noben vidik / nobeno misljenje si ne more lastiti filozofije? Hm... MI lahko razlozita?

Tanatie
12.12.2006, 08:40
noben pogled na svet si ne mora lastiti filozofije. lahko ti probam razlozit kaj jaz razumem s tem, samo je dokaj glup stavek...ampak nic bolj kot noben sistem si ne more lastiti filozofije,,,to je problem pri takih stvareh, ko ze v slovenscini ne razumes tocno, kaj je nekdo hotel povedati, pol mors pa se prevest...pac hotu sem rect da bi blo mogoce najolj sigurno spremeniti al pa kr opustiti ta stavek v anglescini...sorry, rad bi ti bolj pomagal ampak ti ne znam...

Lencka
14.12.2006, 20:29
V bistvu je tako, da samega stavka ne rabim prevajat dobesedno (oz. v enem primeru, ko citiram), pa s tem tako nimam tezav. Tezave imam z izrazi, za katere sem prosila, ker je pac tako, da imamo v slovenscini pogosto tezave s prevajanjem, ce stroka (se) ni uvedla slovenskih ustreznic, in mislim, da bi bilo precej butasto, ce bi imela napisano, na primer, "na Austina je vplivala tocna in exacting filozofija", ne? Kot če bi pisala, ca je v vodi oxygen... :-) Tu ne gre za razumevanje, ampak za strokovno izrazje, ki je tu precej sibko.
Bom ze dobila odgovore, hvala za pomoc vseeno, pa LP!

Tanatie
14.12.2006, 23:36
ja, sej vem da je to problem, samo hotu sem te vprasat ce lahko stavek, ki ma notri recimo exact in exacting, zamenjas z drugim angleskim stavkom...v bistvu me zanima ce prevajas tocno doloceno besedilo, al prevajas povzetek al si iz vecih tekstov sestavla svoj tekst. ker v prvem primeru sicer ne mors narest nic, mors poiskat ta pravi odgovor, v drugem pa tretjem pa lahko komot zamenjas ta stavek z necim drugim al ga pa celo preprosto izpustis...aja pa v vodi je oksigen, ne oxygen in na austina je vplivala eksaktna in eksaktirana filozofija;) :veryevil:

Lencka
19.12.2006, 09:17
To je original teks. Ce bi bil "moj", bi ga kar po slovensko napisala, da mi ne bi bilo treba translatirat ;) Ce sem bolj eksaktna: moj up je, da bi tole vkorporirala v tekst, ki ga vrajtam, pardon, tajpam. :D
Ja, ja, saj vem, da bi se lahko zgledovala po takih primerih, samo mi ne disijo, jih ne lajkam ravno najbolje.

paradox
19.12.2006, 15:13
2. Unlike many ordinary language philosophers, however, Austin disavowed any considerable indebtedness to Wittgenstein's later philosophy. His main influence, he said, was the exact, exacting, and common-sense philosophy of G. E. Moore (http://forumi.siol.net/wiki/G._E._Moore).

...
...Austin pravi/trdi, da je bil njegov bistven vpliv natancna, zahtevna in trezna filozofija...

(btw: Wittgenstein left no fully worked-out system behind him, but his subtlety and stringency of thought were very influential...)